Complexity? Was : RE: Re: dialog box controls and menu/ toolbox in same window?

> Forth is too complicated for most people,
     Compared to what other programming language? Most people learn enough
Forth to do useful work within the first two weeks of study. It takes more
like a couple of months for say, C. 'Naked' Forth has two orders of
magnitude fewer keywords (or function names or whatever you care to call
them) than comparable other languages. One of the drivers for using Forth
over other languages has traditionally been its simplicity and compactness.
Fewer, clearer lines of code and an understandable infrastructure make for
lower cost, shorter schedule and increased reliability,

     Are you confusing Forth with Forth + Windows API + OOP extensions +
other stuff?
     Are you comparing the Forth direct calls to the Windows API with Visual
Basic's "wrapper" around the API calls? If you want to go direct to the API
from VB or similar "application builders" I expect you would have a MUCH
more agonizing time than in Swift-Forth. When and if I need to learn the
Windows API I'll do it interactively from SwiftX of whatever F-32 turns into
rather than with C and a debugger. The key to not needing a debugger is not
to bugger it in the first place.

     I've been bad and strayed into the more philosophical aspects again.
Anyone wishing to continue a dialog with me on this subject please email me
directly instead of the sftalk list.

> ----------
> From: Smith, John (ITS)[SMTP:john.smith_at_tdsb.on.ca]
> Reply To: sftalk_at_forth.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 7:26 AM
> To: 'sftalk_at_forth.com'
> Subject: [sftalk] Re: dialog box controls and menu/toolbox in same
> win dow?
>
>
> tue 08Jan2002
>
> Forth is too complicated for most people, like RPN calculators,
> which once you get used to them are nice
> In a world of visual basic and simple (read English like syntax),
> anthing that looks or is more complex like C++ or Lisp or Smalltalk or
> Prolog is bound to fail to attract any market share, especially when the
> largest consumer software company- Microsoft does not offer a Forth bas3ed
> product for their app or OS development
> The one that seems to run counter to this trend is Borland with
> their Pascal-Delphi, j-builder, Kylix products; however I expect even them
> (which Microsoft has a piece of) and the java community to feel the
> pressure
> from Microsoft's C# product line the .net mix.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Appert, Kevin [SMTP:kevin.appert_at_lmco.com]
> > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:17 PM
> > To: 'sftalk_at_forth.com'
> > Subject: [sftalk] Re: dialog box controls and menu/toolbox in same
> > win dow?
> >
> >
> >
> > >I wonder, what is the average age of Forth programmers now? Are we
> > a dying
> > >breed?
> >
> > It seems as if most of the people showing up at the monthly
> > Silicon Valley FIG meeting are mid 40's-mid 50's with one or two younger
> > folks at most meetings. The group has dwindled in size, mostly around
> 30
> > people depending on time of year.
> > In a world where the clueless pointy-haired bosses are
> > implementing systems (PC and embedded) with Windows (XP and whatever
> they
> > are calling the embedded product formerly CE - new name, same huge
> > footprint
> > and long list of known bugs) my hopes of Forth establishing a
> substantial
> > market share have also dwindled.
> > Anyone with ideas for promoting the use of Forth should speak
> > up now. The Forth Interest Group is crying out for your ideas, energy
> > and
> > enthusiasm. We're a bit off-topic so just email me directly if you want
> to
> > discuss this further.
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Received on Tue Jan 08 2002 - 11:17:50 PST