Ouch!! Oooh, I feel for you on that computer purchase! (Buy an iMac!)

And no need to feel overly sensitive about anything. I have repeatedly =
stated that Forth holds a very special place in computing, and in my own =
heart. It just isn't appropriate for a lot of the bigger chores out =
there. There isn't anything better, in my book, for captive small =
embedded systems. And every time I chose consciously to use a Forth-like =
language approach to appropriate problems I came out looking like a =
hero.

Forth shines in dedicated machine and instrument controllers. I =
mentioned earlier that I produced Godzilla! for the engineers at Hughes =
(then to become Raytheon) Missile Systems. There was a case where =
engineers would go the the field (Arnold AFB in TN) and spend a week to =
collect maybe a half-dozen data files on infrared imaging sensors. Then =
the data would be brought back home and thrown in a closet, never to be =
analyzed or see the light of day again.

By approaching the problem from a Forth-like perspective, I produced =
Godzilla! (RPL) that could run on a server computer hooked up to all the =
serial I/O devices running the test chamber. Then a small piece of =
VBasic running in back of an Excel spreadsheet allowed the engineers to =
detail all the various parameter settings for each individual test. =
Those cells would be highlighted with a mouse after their editing had =
been finished, and then you click a "TOBOR" button on screen to send =
those over to Godzilla!, which interprets all those parameters and sends =
of machine control commands.=20

The net result was that we captured more than 1,000 data files in a week =
of observing at the test chamber, and then back home, within 3 weeks all =
of that data had been analyzed and reports issued to DOD. That was the =
stuff of local legend. All due to Forth-like thinking.

If I showed you a page of Godzilla! code, you'd swear it was some =
dialect of Forth. Because it was. But it was also much more...

So, as for portability? where was the need for multi-platform =
portability here? Where is another installation just like the one at =
Arnold AFB? Who could possibly find the code for Arnold AFT Test =
Chambers useful for their own independent work elsewhere? That's what I =
mean about Forth being the ultimate DSL (Domain Specific Language).

All I'm suggesting beyond these success stories is to widen your =
horizons and stop killing yourself by trying to force square pegs into =
undersized round holes. Forth will always be there, because it isn't a =
language, its a design philosophy. There can be no such thing as a =
Standard Forth, unless it is a useless heap of some tyrant's notion of =
useful vocabularies. But don't let Forth thinking hold you back from =
bigger ventures either.

- DM

On Jan 31, 2010, at 12:55 PM, Marcel Hendrix wrote:

> David McClain <dbm_at_refined-audiometrics.com> writes Re: generating =
self-contained dlls: sf or swiftx?
> [..]
>> However... I must say I did not understand your little joke about =
using=20
>> a plastic fork on your Dell monitor.
>=20
> Then it wasn't very good. Unfortunately, explaining will take quite a =
few
> bytes.
>=20
>>> The same is true of programming languages. Your DOES> words create=20=

>>> single-parameter functional closures -- a higher level concept to be=20=

>>> sure, but once you experience programming from higher up, you see =
things=20
>>> a bit more clearly down below...
>=20
>> True, but if my new LCD monitor has a loose part inside, I open the=20=

>> clam shell with a plastic fork instead of sending it to the Dell =
repair=20
>> shop across country :-)
>=20
> A few months ago I wanted a new computer but really dreaded the =
endless=20
> hassle of setting one up from spare parts. So I ordered one=20
> pre-assembled. Who builds his own computer nowadays? These times are=20=

> over!
>=20
> Literally everything was wrong, parts were missing, OS with wrong=20
> language and teaser software installed, no original CD's... I called=20=

> the manufacturer and I got the strong feeling that they thought that=20=

> people ordering assembled computers were technically illiterate and=20
> that their deliveries could be scavenged for parts that they wouldn't=20=

> know to use anyway. It did scare them quite a bit that I apparently=20
> knew what they were supposed to have delivered and how. They sent over
> the rest real quick.
>=20
> That "rest" included a new monitor. Uh oh: It proved to have 2 screws=20=

> loose and a piece of metal bumping around in the plastic clam shell=20
> case (I was afraid of electrical shortcircuit and didn't even turn it=20=

> on). If you ever studied it, you will notice that LCD monitor cases=20
> are "seamless." There are no screws and no visible latches, and they=20=

> have big stickers on it with "no serviceable parts inside." In my=20
> initial state of mind I gave up and wanted to repack the monitor,=20
> load it on my bike and bring it to the postoffice. Oh no, that was=20
> not allowed: I first needed permission to give it back, print=20
> stickers and pack all kind of stuff AND send it back within 8 days.=20
> And then wait two weeks for repair and bring it back from the=20
> postoffice on my bike again...?
>=20
> So I felt triple abused, by the monitor OEM, by the OS that refused=20
> to change language without CD and behaved like an commercial TV=20
> channel, and by the shop trying to rip me off and discouraging me=20
> to do something about it.=20
>=20
> That's when I revolted and pried open the case (*), disregarding the=20=

> "no-serviceable parts" stickers and the shop redtape hooligans.=20
>=20
> (*) Google told me it can be done by running a tiny piece of plastic=20=

> around the groove hidden in the clamshell seam. Luckily there are=20
> still some hardware hackers around that ferret out how to do these=20
> kind of things.
>=20
> I interpreted your statement as "languages have grown up and are=20
> much better nowadays, need no handholding and can comfortably hide=20
> behind high-level concepts that we don't need to understand to be=20
> able to use them." (Forgive my oversensitivity in this respect.)=20
>=20
> Well, my little plastic DOES> and insisting to know how a compiler=20
> works still seems to get me to places. I'd better not give up that=20
> approach anytime soon!
>=20
> I told you it wasn't very good, but it's not a shaggy dog story =
either.
>=20
> -marcel
>=20
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>=20
>=20

Dr. David McClain
dbm_at_refined-audiometrics.com

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Received on Sun Jan 31 2010 - 14:08:40 PST